Understanding the Souls Under the Alter


Understanding the "Souls Under the Alter"

We know the dead are asleep in the grave until the resurrection. I’ve posted a study about that (CLICK HERE) and (HERE) and (HERE)

Here is a great 7 part series on Life After Death


But many have asked how do we explain Revelation 6:9 the “souls of those who had been slain, that are under the alter”?


 Revelation 6:9 looks like a contradiction at first glance, but it isn’t once we let Scripture interpret Scripture and remember Revelation is a symbolic book.

Let’s walk through it carefully.

At end of the study I present a section on How early Christians understood Revelation 6:9.
After that I have a Side-by-Side Comparison “What it sounds like” vs. “What Scripture means


The foundational truth (established elsewhere)

Before touching Revelation, Scripture is explicit:

  • Ecclesiastes 9:5 – “The dead know not any thing”
  • Psalm 146:4 – Thoughts perish at death
  • John 11:11–14 – Jesus calls death “sleep”
  • Acts 2:29, 34 – David is dead and not in heaven
  • 1 Thessalonians 4:16 – Dead rise at the resurrection, not before

So whatever Revelation 6:9 means, it cannot mean conscious souls talking in heaven—otherwise Scripture contradicts itself.


Revelation 6:9 (the text)

“I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God…
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord…?”

Key questions:

  • What does “soul” mean?
  • What altar?
  • Are they literally speaking?


1. “Soul” does NOT mean an immortal ghost

In Scripture, soul often means life or person, not a conscious entity.

  • Genesis 2:7 – Man became a living soul
  • Ezekiel 18:4 – “The soul that sinneth, it shall die”
  • Leviticus 17:11 – “The life [soul] is in the blood”

So “souls slain” = people who were killed.


2. The altar points to blood, not heaven

In the Temple system:

  • Sacrificial blood was poured at the base of the altar (Leviticus 4:7)
  • Blood represented life poured out

So “souls under the altar” is temple imagery meaning:
👉 Their lives were poured out as a sacrifice

This is courtroom / sanctuary symbolism, not a literal location.


3. “They cried out” = figurative language

The Bible often shows blood crying out symbolically:

  • Genesis 4:10 – Abel’s blood “crieth unto me from the ground”

Abel wasn’t literally speaking.
His blood cried out for justice.

Same idea here:

  • The martyrs’ deaths “cry out” for God to act
  • It’s a legal appeal, not conscious speech


4. Revelation is full of symbols

If Revelation 6:9 is literal, then consistency demands:

  • literal lambs with seven eyes (Rev 5:6)
  • literal bowls of wrath
  • literal dragons and beasts

But Revelation tells us it is signified (symbolized):

  • Revelation 1:1 – “He sent and signified it…”

So the scene is symbolic, just like:

  • seals
  • trumpets
  • vials


5. They are told to “rest yet for a little season”

This actually confirms soul sleep, not denies it.

  • Revelation 6:11 – “They should rest yet for a little season”
  • Compare with Daniel 12:13 – “Thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days”

Rest = death
Standing again = resurrection

They are not active—they are waiting.


Putting it all together

Revelation 6:9 does NOT teach conscious souls in heaven.

It teaches:

  • martyrs truly died
  • their lives were poured out like blood at the altar
  • their deaths cry out symbolically for justice
  • they remain at rest until the resurrection

No contradiction. Perfect harmony.


One-sentence explanation you can use

“The souls under the altar are symbolic of the lives of martyred believers, whose shed blood cries out for justice—just as Abel’s blood did—while they themselves rest in death until the resurrection.”

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1. How early Christians understood Revelation 6:9

A. Early Christians did not read Revelation literally

The earliest believers understood Revelation as:

  • symbolic
  • prophetic
  • sanctuary-based imagery

This wasn’t controversial—it was standard.

They already believed:

  • the dead are unconscious
  • resurrection happens at Christ’s return
  • judgment and vindication are future events

So Revelation 6:9 was never read as conscious souls talking in heaven.


B. “Souls under the altar” = martyrdom imagery

Early Christian writers connected this passage to:

  • Abel’s blood crying from the ground (Genesis 4:10)
  • sacrificial blood poured at the base of the altar
  • legal appeals for justice

They understood the “cry” as:
👉 a metaphor for God remembering unjust deaths

Not literal speech.


C. Early Christian belief about the dead

Very important context:

Early Christians overwhelmingly taught:

  • death = sleep
  • no reward or punishment until resurrection

Examples from early teaching summaries (1st–3rd century):

  • The dead “rest” until the last day
  • Souls do not receive reward immediately
  • Martyrs wait for resurrection like all others

📌 That means Revelation 6:9 could not have meant conscious martyrs in heaven, or it would contradict what they already believed everywhere else.


D. Revelation 6:11 sealed their understanding

“They should rest yet for a little season…”

Early Christians understood this as:

  • death = rest
  • resurrection = awakening
  • justice = future, not immediate

This matched:

  • Daniel 12:13
  • John 5:28–29
  • 1 Thessalonians 4:16

No tension. No debate.

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2. Side-by-Side Comparison

“What it sounds like” vs. “What Scripture means”

What It Sounds Like

What Scripture Actually Means

Souls are alive in heaven

“Soul” means life / person, not a conscious spirit (Gen 2:7; Ezek 18:4)

The dead are talking

Symbolic “cry” like Abel’s blood crying for justice (Gen 4:10)

Martyrs are awake and aware

The dead are asleep / resting (Rev 6:11; John 11:11–14)

Heaven is the location

Sanctuary imagery: blood at the altar (Lev 4:7)

Justice is happening now

Justice is future, after resurrection (Rev 20:4–6)

This overrides clear texts

Revelation is symbolic and cannot contradict plain Scripture


One key insight most people miss

If Revelation 6:9 taught conscious souls:

  • it would contradict Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Gospels, Acts, Paul, and Revelation itself
  • it would require Revelation (symbolic) to override dozens of literal passages

Early Christians never read Scripture that way.

They let:

  • clear passages interpret symbolic ones
  • not the other way around


Simple summary statement (early Christian view)

“The martyrs rest in death, but their blood—like Abel’s—cries out symbolically for God’s justice until the resurrection.”

That understanding:

  • preserves soul sleep
  • fits sanctuary imagery
  • matches early Christian belief
  • keeps Scripture in harmony

A Biblical Refutation of the Trinity

 

The Spirit of God Is the Power of God. Not a Person

The Spirit of God Is the Power of God. Not a Person

I Present a Bible Study followed by a Timeline showing how the trinity entered "Christianity. Followed up by a Message Manuscript suitable for your Home Sabbath Gathering

Introduction

A Biblical Refutation of the Trinity


This is an important topic, and I’ll stay strictly Scriptural no creeds, no councils, no philosophy—only what the Bible actually says.

Below is a clear biblical case that:

  1. God is not a Trinity
  2. The Holy Spirit is the power, mind, and presence of God—not a separate person


I. THE BIBLE NEVER TEACHES A TRINITY

The word Trinity is never found in Scripture—not once.

It comes from post-biblical church councils (4th–5th centuries), heavily influenced by Greek philosophy.


1. GOD DECLARES HE IS ONE — NOT THREE

Deuteronomy 6:4

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.”

Jesus Himself repeated this:

Mark 12:29

“The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”

Not three-in-one.
Not co-equal persons.
One God.


Isaiah 45:5

“I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.”

Isaiah 44:24

“I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone.”

If Father, Son, and Spirit all created, this verse is false.
God says He did it alone.


II. JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD

1. Jesus Has a God

John 20:17

“I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”


1 Corinthians 11:3

“The head of Christ is God.”

Christ has a head (authority).
God does not.


John 14:28

“My Father is greater than I.”

Trinity doctrine says they are co-equal.
Jesus says they are not.


1 Timothy 2:5

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Not three persons in one God—two distinct beings: God and His Son.


III. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD’S POWER, NOT A PERSON

Trinitarian teaching says the Spirit is a third person.
The Bible never calls the Spirit a person, never gives it a name, never records it speaking as an independent being.


1. Holy Spirit = Power

Acts 1:8

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.”

Holy Spirit = power.


Luke 1:35

“The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee.”

Holy Spirit = power of God.


Micah 3:8

“But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD.”

Spirit = God’s power.


2. Holy Spirit Is Poured Out — Persons Are Not Poured Out

Joel 2:28

“I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh.”

Acts 2:17

“I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.”

You don’t pour out a person.
You pour out power, presence, influence.


3. Holy Spirit Is God’s Breath / Mind

Job 33:4

“The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.”

Spirit = breath (Hebrew ruach = wind, breath, power).


Psalm 104:30

“Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created.”

God sends His Spirit like energy or force—not a separate being.


4. Holy Spirit Is How God Is Present Everywhere

Psalm 139:7

“Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?”

Spirit = God’s presence.


IV. THE FATHER AND SON ARE SEPARATE BEINGS

Daniel 7:9–14

Two divine beings:

  • The Ancient of Days (Father)
  • The Son of Man (given dominion)

No third person appears.


Revelation 5

The Father sits on the throne.
The Lamb approaches Him.
No Holy Spirit person on the throne.


V. JESUS RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT

Acts 10:38

“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power.”

If the Spirit were a co-equal God person, Jesus would not be anointed with Him.


VI. THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS? (WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?)

Trinitarians say the Spirit speaks, so it must be a person.

But Scripture often personifies non-persons:

  • Wisdom speaks (Proverbs 1)
  • Blood cries out (Genesis 4:10)
  • The law speaks (Romans 3:19)
  • Creation groans (Romans 8)

Personification does not equal personhood.


VII. WHY THE TRINITY DOCTRINE ENTERED THE CHURCH

1. Greek Philosophy

Plato taught:

  • God is unknowable essence
  • Divine triads are common (Father, Logos, World Soul)


2. Pagan Triads Everywhere

  • Babylon: Nimrod–Semiramis–Tammuz
  • Egypt: Osiris–Isis–Horus
  • Hinduism: Brahma–Vishnu–Shiva

Rome baptized the concept into Christianity.


3. Councils of Nicaea (AD 325) and Constantinople (AD 381)

  • Trinity was voted into doctrine
  • Not taught by apostles
  • Not found in Scripture


VIII. THE BIBLICAL GODHEAD (TRUE TEACHING)

The Bible teaches:

  • One God: The Father
  • One Lord: Jesus Christ, His Son
  • One Spirit: God’s power and presence

1 Corinthians 8:6

“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things…
And one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things.”

No third co-equal person.


IX. WHY THIS MATTERS

If the Trinity is false:

  • God’s identity is simpler and clearer
  • Jesus is truly the begotten Son
  • The Holy Spirit becomes understandable as God’s active force
  • Pagan philosophy is removed from theology


X. SIMPLE BIBLICAL SUMMARY

The Father = God Most High
The Son = Begotten Son, divine by inheritance and authority
The Spirit = God’s power, presence, mind, and influence

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Timeline: How the Trinity Entered Christianity

1. Biblical Era (c. 4 BC – AD 100)

  • God is consistently described as one (Deut. 6:4, Mark 12:29).
  • Jesus is the Son of God, subordinate to the Father (John 14:28, 1 Cor. 11:3).
  • Holy Spirit = power, presence, mind of God (Luke 1:35; Acts 1:8; Psalm 104:30).
  • No Scripture teaches a three-person Godhead.


2. Early Church (c. 100 – 200 AD)

  • Writings of Church Fathers (Ignatius, Clement, Irenaeus) focus on Christ’s divinity but do not clearly define a Trinity.
  • Greek philosophy begins influencing theology:
    • Plato: immortal, ineffable “World Soul”
    • Emphasis on abstract divine concepts
  • Some use of “Father, Son, Holy Spirit” language, but no formal doctrine.


3. Pre-Nicene Debates (200 – 325 AD)

  • Arius teaches Jesus is a created being (Arianism), emphasizing distinction between Father and Son.
  • Others argue for Christ’s equality with God (subordination controversy).
  • Confusion grows over how Father, Son, and Spirit relate.


4. Council of Nicaea (AD 325)

  • Called by Emperor Constantine.
  • Purpose: unify Christianity and resolve Arian controversy.
  • Outcome:
    • Nicene Creed: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit affirmed
    • Language introduces “homoousios” (same substance) for Father and Son.
  • Holy Spirit not fully clarified yet.


5. Post-Nicene / Council of Constantinople (AD 381)

  • Trinitarian doctrine formalized:
    • Father, Son, Holy Spirit = co-equal, co-eternal, one essence.
    • Creed solidifies what becomes mainstream orthodoxy.
  • Doctrine largely blends Scripture language with Greek philosophical concepts.


6. Medieval Church (AD 400 – 1500)

  • Trinity becomes central dogma:
    • Used in creeds, liturgy, and catechisms.
    • Mystical language hides clear biblical distinctions.
  • Philosophy further influences interpretation:
    • Neoplatonism, allegorical readings, abstract unity.


7. Modern Christianity (AD 1500 – Present)

  • Trinity remains a core doctrine in Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches.
  • Bible-based questioning is often ignored or labeled heresy.
  • Many Christians assume Scripture explicitly teaches three co-equal persons, but this is a post-biblical development.


Summary

  • Biblical teaching: One God, Jesus as Son, Holy Spirit = God’s power/presence.
  • Trinity doctrine: Developed gradually from pagan philosophical influence Nicene Creed Constantinople institutionalized in medieval and modern church.

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Message Manuscript for your Home Sabbath Gathering

Introduction:

“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” – John 17:17

Brethren, we gather today to examine a deeply important question:
Is the Holy Spirit a divine person, equal with the Father and Son? Or is it the power and presence of God, not a third member of a triune Godhead?

The doctrine of the Trinity teaches that God is one Being in three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But is that found in the Bible?

Let us open the Scriptures and see what God's Word, not man's traditions, actually says.

Today we will search the Scriptures to uncover the truth about the Holy Spirit and the nature of God. Is the Holy Spirit a person—part of a divine trio? Or is it the very power and presence of God Himself? Let’s open our Bibles, and let the Word of God speak.


I. The Bible Teaches One God—Not Three

Deuteronomy 6:4

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.”

 The foundation of Israel’s faith—and of Jesus’ own teaching—is that God is one, not three. This is echoed by Jesus in Mark 12:29, when He is asked the greatest commandment.

If the Trinity were true, wouldn’t Jesus have corrected that understanding? But He didn’t. He affirmed the Shema: One God.


II. The Holy Spirit Is the Power of God

Let’s go to Luke 1:35:

“The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee…”

Here, the Holy Spirit is equated with the power of the Highest—not a separate person acting on his own.

Acts 1:8 says:

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you…”

Nowhere does it say, “You will receive a person.” It says power.


III. The Holy Spirit Is Never Worshipped or Prayed To

We are commanded to worship God the Father (John 4:23) and to pray in the name of Jesus (John 14:13), but no where are we instructed to pray to or worship the Holy Spirit.

That would be strange if the Spirit were truly a co-equal person of a triune Godhead.


IV. Personal Language Can Be Figurative

Some point to verses where the Spirit “speaks” or is “grieved.” But let’s examine Ephesians 4:30:

“And grieve not the holy Spirit of God…”

Grieving the Spirit is not proof of personhood. Paul also says in Romans 6:6 that “our old man is crucified.” Is our “old man” a person? No—it’s symbolic language.

John 14:26 says:

“The Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit… shall teach you all things.”

Here, “Comforter” (Greek parakletos) is masculine in Greek grammar. That’s grammar, not theology. In Greek, nouns have gender regardless of whether the object is a person.


V. Jesus and the Father Are Personal Beings—The Spirit Is Not

Jesus said in John 17:3:

“This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

He identifies the Father as the only true God. No mention of the Holy Spirit as a co-equal, co-eternal being.


VI. The Apostolic Pattern

Read any of Paul’s greetings:

“Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.” – 1 Corinthians 1:3

Never do we read: “…and from the Holy Spirit.”

Would Paul, filled with the Spirit, continually leave out a member of the Godhead? Or is it because the Holy Spirit is not a separate person at all?


VII. The Holy Spirit Is “It” — Not “He”

In the original Greek of Romans 8:16, the KJV correctly renders:

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit…”

“Itself,” not “himself.” This is the honest translation of the Greek word auto, neuter gender. The Spirit is not called “he” in the original text.


Conclusion: One God, One Son, One Spirit of Power

Brethren, Scripture reveals:

  • One God: The Father
  • One Lord: Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:6)
  • And the Holy Spirit: The power of God, not a separate divine person

The Trinity is a man-made doctrine, not found in the Bible. The word “Trinity” is never mentioned once in Scripture. Instead, the Bible reveals a clear, powerful God who works through His Spirit.

Let us worship God in spirit and truth—not tradition.

Amen.




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